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Bounces t-online.de


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Hi there - we experience huge problems with bounces to all @t-online.de address (which is Germany’s biggest online provider, hence a big problem for as as Germany is our key market). Essentially all e-mails to @t-online.de bounce for several months already, and we now have several thousand suppressed profiles because of that.

I contacted Klaviyo several times and they always say they will look into it (and trying one more time now), however the problem persists.

Does anyone have any advice on how to best address this? Is this something Klaviyo needs to fix (i.e. is Klaviyo getting blocked), or is our domain the problem? Note we just started to set up our own domain in Klaviyo (have added DNS accordingly), but no results yet.

Also does anyone know how I can un-suppress the profiles in bulk?

Thanks for the help, any advice highly appreciated!

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Best answer by cassy.lee 7 May 2021, 16:31

Hi @flonomao,

Thanks for your follow up, and letting us know the actions you have taken here. It sounds like perhaps instead of a dedicated sending IP, you were able to get a dedicated sending domain. For clarity, a Dedicated Sending Domain uses the root domain of a business, instead of a root domain supplied by Klaviyo. A Dedicated Sending IP address gives you full control of your email sending, so you're fully responsible for the reputation of your own IP.

It’s likely that you were able to establish a Dedicated Sending Domain, but there are other specific requirements needed for a Dedicated Sending IP.

@Roland - you are right that it can be risky to use a Dedicated Sending IP, which is why there are some general guidelines and requirements that restrict access, and there is a defined process for warming that anyone with a Dedicated Sending IP needs to go through. You are correct that if emails from a Dedicated Sending IP have a high bounce rate early on, emails from that Dedicated Sending IP can be marked as spam.

Regarding your question on appropriate sending volume, according to this Sendgrid article:

As a general baseline, you should send at least 50,000 emails per month at least twice per month (for 100,000 emails total) in order to warm up your IP.


We understand that these recent changes implemented by t-online may cause delivery concerns for our customers, and we recognize that not all businesses may meet their requirements for a Dedicated Sending IP. If this is the case for your business, I’d still recommend reaching out to their Support (postmaster@rx.t-online.de) with the specific details of this impact, including:

- What sending domain you are using
- # of T-online addresses on file
- Affirm all addresses are double opt-in (DOI is mandatory for delivery at T-online)
- Provide example email addresses that have complained to you about not receiving email
- How many emails do you send each month?
- Include an email header
https://mxtoolbox.com/Public/Content/EmailHeaders/

I’d also recommend mentioning that you are a small, growing business and that you need to leverage a shared IP as your business continues to grow, because you currently do not have the volume to keep a dedicated IP warm. Unfortunately, that means you are unable to comply with the domain alignment requirements they have recently rolled out.

Thanks so much, 
-Cass. 

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16 replies

Userlevel 3
Badge +3

Hi @FIRE-FOOD,

I’ve escalated this with Klaviyo support. Can you please update the original email thread you had going with support so that they can confirm your account. You should hear back from them shortly once you request an update.

Best,

Julie

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Thanks Julie - appreciate the help. I have opened a support request with the Klaviyo team. Based on some testing we have done in the meantime really seems to be an issue with Klaviyo. Direct Mails from our mail accounts to @t-online.de go through, and so do the answers. Also seems like transactional emails from Klaviyo go through (opt-in confirmation for newsletter), but other emails don’t (e.g. the coupon code that is supposed to come after the opt-in).

We have the exact same issue. Let me know once you find a solution @FIRE-FOOD !

Userlevel 6
Badge +5

Hi @flonomao

I’m sorry to hear that you’re also experiencing similar issues with t-online.de! 

I wanted to follow up so that you, and others who might also be experiencing this, are aware that we are currently in contact with the inbox provider to address this issue. We look forward to sharing an update here with the Community when we learn more. 

In the meantime, our team recommends that you avoid sending campaign emails to these profiles to prevent them from being automatically suppressed after a series of soft bounces. To do this, you could create a segment using the following condition and exclude this segment from the campaigns:

 


 Thank you,
-Cass.

Is there any news @FIRE-FOOD @flonomao @cassy.lee @julie.accardo ?

I am also facing this problem since I switched to Klaviyo. I contacted the support in December 2020. Unfortunately, no solution is in sight so far.
Meanwhile I spend days to answer our customers, because e-mails are not sent.

I have had this problem for almost half a year now. Please provide a solution :pray_tone1: .

The time I invested in customer support I might as well have invested in switching to another email marketing automation provider.
When can we expect a solution? The whole thing is quite annoying :angry: !
 

Hey @Roland

no news yet on my end. 

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Same here, no news. Klavyio says they will take care but nothing changes and then you don‘t hear back.

Dear Klaviyo Team - if you read this it becomes obvious that this is an issue for all of your German based customers. t-online is the biggest provider after all in Germany.

I totally understand that Germany is not your biggest market and probably a fraction of the US, however if this cannot be solved (I hope it can) then you should let us (and other existing/prospective customers from Germany) know so we can start looking for alternatives to Klaviyo. Just a fatal flaw if emails to the largest provider cannot be sent.

Userlevel 6
Badge +5

Hi @flonomao @FIRE-FOOD @Roland 

Thanks so much for your patience, and my apologies for not responding back to this thread yesterday. I hear you, and I understand the urgency and frustration this must be causing for you and your business. Our team is still actively working on this relationship with t-online, so unfortunately I do not have an update at this time, but I will absolutely respond back to this thread when I learn more. 

We really appreciate your understanding on this, and I’m hopeful to have some more clarity to share on the matter shortly. 

Thanks so much, 
-Cass. 

Hi @cassy.lee,

thanks for your response.

I understand that Klaviyo does not want to comment until when the problem will be fixed. However, I have heard such answers a few times. I don't take it seriously anymore. I don't see the urgency, because there is no update since five month.

One more thing: In my opinion Klaviyo will not be successful on the German market without t-online.

Regards
Roland

Userlevel 6
Badge +5

Hi @Roland

First, we really appreciate your patience as we spent the last few days learning more about T-online.de and how their new restrictions impact our customers. Second, thank you for sharing your concerns around Klaviyo’s urgency around the matter, and the success in the German market. We understand how T-online’s changes on requiring senders to have full domain alignment can create friction for our customers, and we’re hopeful that the guidelines we have created will help our customers navigate these changes more effectively. 

To clarify for others that might be new to the current T-online.de experience: their new restriction is a global change that was made this past February, which impacts all senders using shared IPs (a common practice across ESPs).

 
@flonomao @FIRE-FOOD for visibility into this topic...

Our team has put together this guide to Meeting the T-online.de Inbox Placement Requirements, which addresses how Klaviyo customers can meet the requirements that T-online has recently outlined: 

t-online.de Inbox Placement Requirements

t-online.de has released the following requirements to reach any subscribers who use their inbox service:

  • You must use a dedicated sending IP and have enough consistent volume to keep the IP warm
  • Enable double opt-in for your lists
  • Your Sender Policy Framework (SPF), DomainKeys Identified Mail (DKIM), Reverse DNS (rDNS; i.e., your domain for dedicated IP), and your sender email domains in Klaviyo (the from-address for each email send) must all align


While I know this doesn’t provide an immediate fix for our customers who are using a Shared IP today, I’m hoping that the article above will provide some more clarity for how users can get a Dedicated Sending IP, and include better explanation on how we are meeting the new T-online changes.  Additionally, our Academy and Compliance team will continue to monitor and adjust our supporting documentation as updates occur, should T-online revert their requirements. As a second recommendation, I would also suggest reaching out to T-online’s support, or to postmaster@rx.t-online.de, to share the impact this has on your sending volume. 

Thanks for sharing your experiences on the Community forum with us, and for helping us better understand the impact this has for your business.
-Cass. 

Hi @Roland

First, we really appreciate your patience as we spent the last few days learning more about T-online.de and how their new restrictions impact our customers. Second, thank you for sharing your concerns around Klaviyo’s urgency around the matter, and the success in the German market. We understand how T-online’s changes on requiring senders to have full domain alignment can create friction for our customers, and we’re hopeful that the guidelines we have created will help our customers navigate these changes more effectively. 

To clarify for others that might be new to the current T-online.de experience: their new restriction is a global change that was made this past February, which impacts all senders using shared IPs (a common practice across ESPs).

 
@flonomao @FIRE-FOOD for visibility into this topic...

Our team has put together this guide to Meeting the T-online.de Inbox Placement Requirements, which addresses how Klaviyo customers can meet the requirements that T-online has recently outlined: 

t-online.de Inbox Placement Requirements

t-online.de has released the following requirements to reach any subscribers who use their inbox service:

  • You must use a dedicated sending IP and have enough consistent volume to keep the IP warm
  • Enable double opt-in for your lists
  • Your Sender Policy Framework (SPF), DomainKeys Identified Mail (DKIM), Reverse DNS (rDNS; i.e., your domain for dedicated IP), and your sender email domains in Klaviyo (the from-address for each email send) must all align


While I know this doesn’t provide an immediate fix for our customers who are using a Shared IP today, I’m hoping that the article above will provide some more clarity for how users can get a Dedicated Sending IP, and include better explanation on how we are meeting the new T-online changes.  Additionally, our Academy and Compliance team will continue to monitor and adjust our supporting documentation as updates occur, should T-online revert their requirements. As a second recommendation, I would also suggest reaching out to T-online’s support, or to postmaster@rx.t-online.de, to share the impact this has on your sending volume. 

Thanks for sharing your experiences on the Community forum with us, and for helping us better understand the impact this has for your business.
-Cass. 

Hey @cassy.lee,

thanks for your detailed answer. Great that your team has put together a small guideline already as well. We’ve now implemented the dedicated sending IP and hope to have solved the problem. Also we hope that it doesn’t have too much impact on our mailing activities.

Keeping you posted.

Hey @cassy.lee,

thanks for your guideline to solve the problem.

Can't it be a bit risky to use a dedicated sending IP? If at the beginning the bounce rate is too high it can happen that the IP gets a spammy environment. Or am I wrong there?

Also, it would be interesting to know how high the number of mails has to be to keep the IP warm. Do you have an answer for that?

 

Thanks in Advance!

@flonomao It´s great to hear that. Please let us know if everything works fine.

Hey @cassy.lee and @Roland

we have implemented a dedicated sending IP and did everything that’s mentioned in the guide but t-online mails still bounce. Not sure if we made a mistake or if it’s simply not doing the trick.

Is it possible to double-check our set-up now from Klaviyo side?

Best

Flo

Userlevel 6
Badge +5

Hi @flonomao,

Thanks for your follow up, and letting us know the actions you have taken here. It sounds like perhaps instead of a dedicated sending IP, you were able to get a dedicated sending domain. For clarity, a Dedicated Sending Domain uses the root domain of a business, instead of a root domain supplied by Klaviyo. A Dedicated Sending IP address gives you full control of your email sending, so you're fully responsible for the reputation of your own IP.

It’s likely that you were able to establish a Dedicated Sending Domain, but there are other specific requirements needed for a Dedicated Sending IP.

@Roland - you are right that it can be risky to use a Dedicated Sending IP, which is why there are some general guidelines and requirements that restrict access, and there is a defined process for warming that anyone with a Dedicated Sending IP needs to go through. You are correct that if emails from a Dedicated Sending IP have a high bounce rate early on, emails from that Dedicated Sending IP can be marked as spam.

Regarding your question on appropriate sending volume, according to this Sendgrid article:

As a general baseline, you should send at least 50,000 emails per month at least twice per month (for 100,000 emails total) in order to warm up your IP.


We understand that these recent changes implemented by t-online may cause delivery concerns for our customers, and we recognize that not all businesses may meet their requirements for a Dedicated Sending IP. If this is the case for your business, I’d still recommend reaching out to their Support (postmaster@rx.t-online.de) with the specific details of this impact, including:

- What sending domain you are using
- # of T-online addresses on file
- Affirm all addresses are double opt-in (DOI is mandatory for delivery at T-online)
- Provide example email addresses that have complained to you about not receiving email
- How many emails do you send each month?
- Include an email header
https://mxtoolbox.com/Public/Content/EmailHeaders/

I’d also recommend mentioning that you are a small, growing business and that you need to leverage a shared IP as your business continues to grow, because you currently do not have the volume to keep a dedicated IP warm. Unfortunately, that means you are unable to comply with the domain alignment requirements they have recently rolled out.

Thanks so much, 
-Cass. 

Hi @cassy.lee,

I contacted postmaster@rx.t-online.de as you suggested. They replied in between 30 minutes:

 

On Tue, 11 May 2021 09:32:42 +0200, you wrote:

>167.89.100.91

The error message is addressed to you as the sender of the mail, because the sender should receive a so-called bounce mail (undeliverable message) from the mail server, which contains this error message.

However, it says that the sender should contact his own postmaster(*) - or alternatively his IT helpdesk - who will, if necessary, contact us in English to clarify the cause of the problem. The e-mail address specified in the error message can also be reached via a mail system that may be blocked by us. 

(*) You can usually reach your postmaster in the domain from which you received
    received the e-mail with the error message. 

Sorry for this inconvenience, but we need to have a direct contact with a person responsible for the listed server, as only such a person can solve the problem. Thank you for your understanding!

 

So, what´s next?

Best regards

Roland


 

Userlevel 6
Badge +5

Hi @Roland

Thanks for following up with this communication via t-online. I’ve reached out to you via DM to get additional details. 

Thanks, 
-Cass. 

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